InfoWorld: What do you see as the significance of Microsoft's collaboration with Zend that you announced the other day?
Gutmans: The significance is definitely that Microsoft has come to acknowledge the size of the PHP community and also the fact that there is an overlap. There are a lot of PHP users who are interested in getting good PHP support in Windows. And I think with [Microsoft General Manager of Technical Platform Strategy] Bill Hilf's recent work, it shows that Microsoft is now really willing to do what's right for their platform, and also cooperate with its competition in certain areas of interoperability.
InfoWorld: You don't think Microsoft would rather just have those users develop on Visual Basic or C++?
Gutmans: Oh, definitely. I mean in a perfect world, all those developers would be .Net developers.
InfoWorld: Perfect for Microsoft?